HAVმაპატიე, მაგრამ ისევ შემოვედი.
შენ თუ მაგ დონის მასალას ეძებ აგერ თვით "ნიზკორ"-ის საიტი. ეგ რაც დადე მანდედანაა გადმოტარგმნილი და მაგის გარდა კიდევ ბევრ სხვა მასალასაც ნახავ. მემგონი სტატიები დევიდ ირვინგზე ყველაზე საინტერესოა. ჰოლოკოსტის მიმართ ყველაზე სერიოზულ სკეპტიკოსად ითვლება. მოკლედ საინტერესოა.
http://www.nizkor.org * * *
ისე, იცოდე რომ სერიოზულ ისტორიკოსებს წლები აქვთ გატარებული ისრაელი, ბრიტანეთის, გერმანიის და ამერიკის არქივებში და შესწავლილი აქვთ ყველა დოკუმენტი, რაც კი ჰოლოკოსტს ეხება. მათი უმრავლესობა არ უარყოფს 6 მილიონს.
[LoD]-Bagra
ჰოლოკოსტი რა თქმა უნდა მარტო ებრაელების არ იყო, მაგრამ ყველას თავისი დაღუპულები უნდა დაეთვალა თავის დროზე და მათი სახელების (და არა მარტო ციფრების) ხსოვნისთვის პატივი ეცათ. ამ მხრივ გეთანხმები, ებრაელებმა ყველას ვაჯობეთ, მაგარმ ჩვენი რა ბრალია. ვინ დაუშალა პოლონელებს, ჩეხებს , ბოშებს, ან იგივე ჰომოსექსუალებს იგივე გაეკეთებინათ ?
რა ვქნათ ძალინ გრძელი მეხსიერება გვჭირს. დიდხანს გვახსოვს კარგიც და ცუდიც.
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აი საიტიც, რომელიც დევიდ ირვინგის და დებორა ლიპშტატის პროცესს განიხილავს. მემგონი ჰოლოკოსტის უარყოფა, და ყველა არგუმენტები ორივე მხრიდან ისე სერიოზულად არ განუხილიათ ამ ბოლო ათეულ წლებში, როგორც ამ პროცესზე.
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites...ust/trial1.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irvinghttp://www.holocaustdenialontrial.org/ieindex.htmlwww.holocaust-history.org
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აი ეს კი მოკლე სია, ვისაც სერიოზული ბიბლიოგრაფია აინტერესებს (ისეთებიც რომლების სკეპტიციზს გამოთქვამენ 6 მილიონის ირგვლივ )
Quoted in Philip Rubenstein, "The Leuchter Report in the United Kingdom," in Shelly Shapiro (ed.), The Truth Prevails (New York, 1990), p. 89.
Deborah E. Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust (New York, 1993), p. 24;
Sarah Rembiszewski, The Final Lie, (Tel Aviv, 1996); Limor Yagil, Holocaust Denial in France, (Tel Aviv, 1994) pp. 61-72 ; Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, p. 24.
Although providing different figures, most of the leading deniers claim that several hundred thousand Jews died during the Holocaust -- see Rembiszewski, The Final Lie, pp. 39-44; Yagil, Holocaust Denial in France, pp. 35, 51; Arthur Butz, the leading Holocaust denier in the US, estimated that as many as one million Jews died -- Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, p. 124.
David Irving, Hitler’s War (New York, 1977), p. xvii.
Ibid. The book was published simultaneously in Canada.
Ibid. p. xvi. Irving used the same phrase in The War Path (London 1987), p. ix. He claimed that describing the "events from behind the Fhrer’s desk" led him to adopt a previously untried technique -- cf. D.C. Watt’s harsh criticism of The War Path, Daily Telegraph, 20 June 1978 and J.P. Taylor’s relatively favorable criticism, Observer, 18 June, 1978.
Martin Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," Yad Vashem Studies 13 (1979), p. 80.
Irving, Hitler’s War, pp. xv, xvi, 7, 31, 34; Irving, The War Path, pp. xiv, xviii, 54-67.
Irving, Hitler’s War, p. xiii.
Ibid., pp. xiv, 269-71, 329-32; Irving, The War Path, p. xvi.
Guardian, 6 August 1977.
Irving, Hitler’s War, pp. 325-27, 329-30, 390-3. In his introduction to The War Path, p. xvi, Irving refers again to Auschwitz as a liquidation camp.
Irving, Hitler’s War, p. 332. Referring to the period 1933-39 in The War Path, p. xv, Irving claims that after Hitler seized power in 1933, he paid only lip-service to antisemitism as part of his creed and it was the "Nazi gangsters under him [who] continued to ride to hounds…"
Irving, Hitler’s War, pp. xiv, 326-32, 392-3, 503-4, 576 .
Irving, The War Path, pp. xv, 163-6.
Irving, Hitler’s War, p. 332. Hitler’s alleged prohibition of Jewish liquidation was based on a note in Himmler’s pocket telephone book, according to which, on 30 November 1941 Himmler telephoned Heydrich in Prague from Hitler’s bunker at the Wolf’s Lair. The note of his conversation with Heydrich read: "Judentransport aus Berlin. Keine Liquidierung." Many of Irving’s critics pointed out that Irving misused the document to support his thesis. While Himmler’s note referred merely to a single transport from Germany, it was presented by Irving as clear proof that Hitler forbade the liquidation of the Jews -- Charles W. Sydnor, Jr., "The Selling of Adolf Hitler: David Irving’s Hitler’s War," in M.R. Marrus (ed. ), The Nazi Holocaust (London, 1989), p. 35; Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," pp. 103-6.
Irving, Hitler’s War, p. 576; see also pp. xiv-xv, 326-7, 330-2, 391-3, 503-5, 601-2..
Irving, Hitler’s War, pp. xii-xv.
Sydnor, "The Selling of Adolf Hitler, pp. 21-51; John Lukacs, The Hitler of History (New York, 1997), p. 179; Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," pp. 73-125; Gerald Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution (Jerusalem, 1987; in Hebrew), pp. ix, p. 21, note 19, pp. 46-7; Guardian, 16 June 1977. Hitler’s War was not the first book by Irving to provoke severe accusations of falsification. When he published his first book The Destruction of Dresden (London, 1963), he was accused of exaggerating considerably the number of dead at Dresden. And indeed, three years later he admitted having given a false number, claiming that he had been deceived. Now the figure he gave was 25,000 instead of 135,000, Evening Standard, 28 October 1967. Years later, however, he did not hesitate to repeat his exaggerated figures -- The Destruction of Dresden (London 1985); The Journal of Historical Review (January/February 1993), p. 10. Two of his books: Accident: The Death of General Sikorski (London, 1968), in which he claims that the death of General Vladislav Sikorski, prime minister of the Polish Government-in-Exile, in an aircraft crash, was engineered by Churchill; and The Destruction of Convoy PQ17, in which he blamed a Royal Navy commander for the sinking of the convoy (London, 1968), were subjected to legal proceedings. In both cases it was proved that Irving mor misinterpreted documents and evidence -- Sydnor, "The Selling of Adolf Hitler, p. 24, note 10; Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," p. 77, note. 9.
The Institute for Historical Review (IHR) was founded in 1979 by Willis A. Carto, head of the extreme right and antisemitic organization Liberty Lobby. During the 1980s and beginning of the 1990s the IHR sponsored annual conferences which became the main forum for Holocaust deniers worldwide. The lectures delivered at these conferences were published in the IHR journal The Journal for Historical Review (JHR). From the outset, the IHR suffered from internal dissension, mainly between Carto and senior IHR staffers. The latter described Carto as a dictator who did not refrain from censoring articles. See, for example, letter of Keith Stimely, the JHR editor, to "editorial advisors, contributors, and friends of JHR," 25 February 1985 , The Archive of the Stephen Roth Institute, TAU, David Irving Files C02, (hereafter, Irving Files). In September 1993 the IHR editorial staff and the board of directors voted to terminate IHR’s association with Carto, which led to litigation -- see Anti-Defamation League, Embattled Bigots: A Split in the Ranks of the Holocaust Denial Movement (New York, 1994).
Journal of Historical Review. 2-4 (Winter 1984), p. 303; It was probably Carto who decided to censor Faurisson’s article against Irving as well as to prevent publication of other articles -- Stimely to "editorial advisors, contributors and friends of JHR," 25, February 1985; Stimely to Arthur Butz, Robert Faurisson, James J. Martin, Mark Weber, Wayne Lutton, Fritz Berg, Tom Marcellus, 29 December 1983, Irving Files.
Journal of Historical Review , 2-4 (Winter 1984), p. 302; Stimely to Faurisson, 9 September 1983, "Guidelines for ‘A Challenge to David Irving’," Irving Files.
See, for example, League Review (of the League of St. George), 17 December 1977.
Patterns of Prejudice 2 (1982), pp. 35-8; see also Searchlight 24 (May 1977);
New Statesman, 7 July 1978.
Patterns of Prejudice 2 (1982), p. 38.
Ibid, pp. 37-8 .
Ian Kershaw, The Nazi Dictatorship (London, 1993), p. 82.
See, for example, Hans Mommsen, From Weimar to Auschwitz (Oxford/Cambridge, 1991), pp. 224-53; Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," pp. 73-125.
Broszat claimed that the annihilation of the Jews was "improvised" rather than triggered by a single secret order, that it was a "way out" of a blind alley that evolved into a comprehensive program. He assumed that Hitler had "contented himself with verbal authorizations," Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," pp. 98-102, 110. Mommsen went much further than Broszat in claiming that no direct order, either written or verbal, in regard to the Final Solution was ever issued by Hitler. Moreover he claimed that when Hitler was "confronted with the actual consequences of the destruction of the Jews he reacted in exactly the same way as his subordinates, by attempting not to be aware of the facts or suppressing his knowledge" -- Mommsen, From Weimar to Auschwitz, pp. 238-9, 251, 348, note 149; see also Lukacs, The Hitler of History, p. 178.
See, for example, Prospectus for the JHR special issue on David Irving, submitted, probably, by Keith Stimely [Autumn 1983].
Broszat, "Hitler and the Genesis of the ‘Final Solution’," pp.75-6. Despite his severe criticism of Irving’s methods, Broszat maintained that had it not been for Irving’s unreserved acquittal of Hitler, Irving’s thesis would have been welcomed as a necessary contribution to the historical polemic in Germany, p.81. Mommsen in his well-known article on the Final Solution, "The Realization of the Unthinkable," was much less critical of Irving than Broszat, even using Hitler’s War as a source for some of his arguments regarding Hitler’s allegedly loose connection to the actual implementation of the Final Solution. See Mommsen, From Weimar to Auschwitz, pp. 232 , note 21;. p. 234, note 32; p. 235 note. 46, p. 239 note.66. See also favorable statements by well-known scholars such as John Keegan and Gordon Craig about Irving’s contribution to the historiography of National Socialism and World War II, New York Times, 26 June 1999; New York Review of Books, 19 September 1996; The New Republic, 21 October 1996.
Ernst Zndel, "Holocaust, Zndel Trial Update," Irving Files. Leuchter’s claims to be a chief engineer specializing in gas chambers, proved to be fraudulent -- Shapiro, Introduction, The Truth Prevails, pp. 1-28.
The Leuchter Report (London, 1989); Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, pp. 162-3.
Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, p. 50.
Zndel, "Holocaust, Zndel Trial Update."
Irving’s introduction to The Leuchter Report; see also Rubenstein, "The Leuchter Report in the United Kingdom," p. 87.
Irving’s introduction to The Leuchter Report. Similar texts can be found in various pamphlets and letters circulated by Irving in the wake of his "revelation" on the "myth of the gas chambers – see, for example, his arrogant letter to M.P Hugh Dykes, 30 June 1989.
In 1992 a Munich court convicted Irving of claiming publicly that the gas chambers in Auschwitz were a lie and that no more than one million Jews perished in World War II, Times, 16 May 1992; Guardian, 6 May 1992; Siegener Zeitung, 6 May 1992; see also Verfassungsschutzbericht 1990, p. 116.
Daily Telegraph, 19 March 1990.
It seems that there were 67 transcripts, one for each tape recording. The prosecution in the Eichmann trial succeeded in getting most of them, but only one transcript and a few pages with Eichmann’s corrections and notes were accepted by the judges -- see Jacob Robinson, And the Crooked Shall Be Made Straight (Jerusalem 1966; in Hebrew) pp. 108-9, 278-9, notes. 52-54. In 1980 the monologues, edited by a former Nuremburg defense attorney Rudolf Aschenauer, were published by the extreme right publication, Druffel Verlag, under the title "Ich, Adolf Eichmann." Irving claimed that in contrast to the edited manuscript, he based his arguments on the verbatim transcriptions -- see David Irving, "The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers, "Journal of Historical Review (March/April 1993), pp. 16-19; see also IHR Newsletters 85 (February 1992), pp. 2-3.
Observer, 12 January, 1992; Sunday Telegraph, 19 January 1992; IHR Newsletter 85 (February 1992); Spotlight, 10 February, 1992.
Irving, "The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers," Journal of Historical Review (March/April 1993), pp. 14-25; see also his statements in the Munich court in 1992, Times, 16 May 1992; Guardian, 6 May 1992.
Some of Irving’s basic historical and political concepts, as well as his racist and antisemitic beliefs, appeared in his article "Battle for Europe" published in the student paper Carnival Times in May 1959. In the wake of the controversy his first articles provoked, he described himself as a "mild fascist" -- Daily Mail, 1 May 1959. Irving’s ideological motives and his political aspirations culminated at the beginning of the 1980s in the establishment of the Focus Policy Group as the nucleus of a new ultra-right movement -- Roger Griffin, The Nature of Fascism (London, 1991(, p. 167.
Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, p.43; Harry E. Barnes, "The Court Historians Versus Revisionism," in The Barnes Trilogy (Torrance, 1979), p. 14; Barnes, "Blasting the Historical Blackout," The Barnes Trilogy, p. 33; Barnes, "Revisionism and Brainwashing," The Barnes Trilogy, pp. 37.
See, for example, League Review, 17 December 1977.
David Irving, The Destruction of Dresden -- see note 19.
Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, p. 68-9; Lucy S. Dawidowicz, "Lies about the Holocaust," Commentary (December 1980), pp. 31-3; Barnes, "Blasting the Historical Blackout," p. 18; Barnes, "Revisionism and Brainwashing," pp. 5, 47.
See note 8; Theodore J. O’ Keefe, "Irving On Churchill," Journal of Historical Review 4 (Winter 1986), pp. 499-504.
O’ Keefe, "Irving on Churchill," pp.502-3; David Irving, "On Contemporary History and Historiography," Journal of Historical Review 2-4 (Winter 1984), pp. 274-83.
Irving, "On Contemporary History and Historiography," pp. 274-83; Jewish Chronicle, 25 November 1983; unpublished section from Robert Faurisson’s "A Challenge to David Irving" (censored by W. Carto), Irving Files. In his reply to Fleming, Jewish Chronicle, 23 December 1983, Irving claimed that he did not deny the annihilation of "many millions of Jews"; however, the conditional phrases that he used made it clear that he doubted the veracity of the Holocaust.
Irving, "On Contemporary History and Historiography," p. 282...
Ibid., p. 274.
Hitler’s War, p. 12.
Lipstadt, Denying the Holocaust, pp. 36-7, 110, 111; Pierre Vidal-Naquet, The Assassins of Memory , (Tel Aviv, 1991; in Hebrew), pp. 103-7; Richard Harwood, Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth at Last (London, n.d.), p. 4; Pierre Birnbaum, Anti-Semitism in France (Oxford, 1992), pp. 267-8.
On the misrepresentation of Weizman’s statement, see Richard J. Evans, In Hitler’s Shadow (Tel Aviv, 1991; in Hebrew), p.50..
Irving, "The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers," p. 19.
Evans, In Hitler’s Shadow, pp. 42, 50-1; Lukacs, The Hitler of History, p. 180; interview with Ernst Nolte Der Spiegel, 3 October 1994.
The allegation that the Jews were the first to declare war on Germany was made, for example, in 1995 in Freiheitliche Jahrbuch by Austrian political scientist Warner Pfeifenberger -- Anti-Semitism Worldwide 1995/6 (Tel Aviv , 1996). German Holocaust denier Germar Rudolf made a similar claim in 1994 -- Rembiszewski, The Holocaust Lie, p. 42.
Hitler’s War, p. 510.
In the years that followed, Irving suggested other "Jewish provocations" that had instigated the Nazis to escalate their anti-Jewish policy," for example, Theodore Kaufman’s book Germany Must Perish," which allegedly motivated the Nazis to force the Jewish population to wear the yellow star -- Irving, "The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers," p. 19.
David Irving to C.C. Aronsfeld, 26 May 1961; C.C. Aronsfeld to David Irving, 26 May 1961; R. Dolinsky to David Irving, 29 September 1961; C.C. Aronsfeld to David Irving, 6 October 1961, Irving Files.
See, for example, his letter to the Australian Jewish News, 29 September 1992.
David Irving, "The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers," p. 18; "The David Irving Fighting Fund," 8 December 1995.
See note 43; also his interview with L’Espresso, 26 July 1992, in which he said that "the problem of the Jews is that I am a historian that cannot be corrupted, that I cannot be either bought or intimidated"; Journal of Historical Review ( March/April 1993), pp. 14-25; Journal of Historical Review (Winter 1984), 263-4; and his interview with Spotlight 10 (February 1992), in which he predicted a new wave of antisemitism because the Jews "have exploited people with the gas chamber legend."
Bela Vago, "An Anti-Jewish Distortion of History," Soviet Jewish Affairs 3 (1981), pp. 68-72.
Irving’s allegations about Hungarian Jewish domination has appeared in extreme right antisemitic propaganda. See, for example, "State and Jewish Terror," distributed by Stormfront-List, 21 April 1998; see also Irving’s statements in the case of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry against Frederick Toben concerning the role of the Jewish people in the Bolshevik Revolution and "in running the satellite nations in the Soviet empire," Irving Files.
O’ Keefe, "Irving on Churchill, pp. 498-504.
Irving’s introduction to The Leuchter Report.
M.Schmidt, (London, 1993), p. 208; Irving’s publications were displayed by neo-Nazis in Dresden on the 50th anniversary of the Allied bombings -- "Kleine Anfrage der Abgeordneten Ulla Jelpke und der Gruppe der PDS," Deutscher Bundestag 13, Wahlperiode, 24 March 1995.
This post has been edited by caliber on 18 Dec 2005, 12:05